GPSrChive Discussion Forum

It is unfortunate you did not configure the track log recording settings identically on both devices before the test. As is, I would expect the tracks displayed to be different since each GPSr had different settings, and no usable comparison can be made.

Wanting to keep the 700 as close as possible to default after the reset I never thought of setting them both the same like that.
Next time I'll set them the same.

I would have thought they'd have been closer together in relation to each other actually, they travelled exactly the same path at exactly the same speed and time, perhaps Garmin's definition of what's best (default) needs some fine tuning, unless it's the freezing issue causing the differences...

A much better test for your purpose would be to configure both devices to record the GPX track log at 1 second intervals.

Another response today.

Your case has now been updated with the information provided. Can you please also provide the following details:

• In their second video, you don't seem to be using the Montana 700 in a mount, but it's sitting in an ATV - is that right?

• In one of your videos. are you attempting to show that enabling the third party map is correcting the issue?

• Are you using the AMPS Rugged Mount on a motorcycle or similar vehicle? If so, did you have it professionally installed?

• Does the issue only occur when actually navigating, or does it also happen when simply viewing the Map page when riding around? If you haven't tried while not navigating, please test this

• Which third party maps do you have on the device?

• Do they notice if this issue occurs with the Basemap off? Please test this

My reply:

Answers to your questions:

• If you mean in the second video in my previous reply where I was walking around away from the vehicle, then no, that is not right, it was in the mount until I stopped, I then removed it from the mount and started walking with it, I started the video as I was getting out of the vehicle. It makes no difference if it's in the mount or just sitting on the dash the issue still occurs, the only difference I can find seems to be the shutting off of the power to the mount while it is frozen, it then seems to free up until the power is restored to the mount, then it freezes again.

• No, using the default maps, using third party maps, using no maps, using the basemap or not using the basemap does not correct the issue.

• No, I do not have the AMPS rugged mount. As stated in the reply below I have the suction cup mount, part number (010-12881-00), the AMPS rugged mount is part number (010-12881-08) which I do not have.

• The issue occurs whether navigating or not navigating, regardless of whether whether navigation is straight line navigation or turn by turn navigation.

• Currently, and for the first testing video in the reply below, there are no third party maps on the device, what maps are on the device and which of those are enabled/disabled is shown in the video.

• The issue occurs with the basemap on and the issue occurs with the basemap off.

You will also notice I did a factory reset of the device (shown in the start of the video) before I commenced testing, this was done to try and eliminate any possibilities that might have been user introduced.

It should also be noted that testing my GPSMAP 276CX in the same manner as testing my 700 that I see the same redraw freezing issue.

Thanks

Well, at least we know they are looking into it....

Indeed...hopefully they'll be able to replicate it sooner or later and eventually fix it.
I'm not sure of the correct terminology and I find it hard to put into words what I think it might be, but here's some thoughts on the issue, might be completely wrong I guess but anyway...

I'm wondering if the 700 and the 276CX have been coded to use the magnetic compass with regards to changes in direction/map rotation at low speeds, and once the device gets to a certain speed it then gets the relevant info it needs for map rotation etc. from the GPS data.

Perhaps the relevant code to ensure correct map rotation at low speeds when the magnetic compass is disabled is buggy, missing or incomplete in the 700 and CX, whereas it works fine in the older 600 series.
Any of the older Garmin devices I've had never had this behaviour now that I think about it, doing the same type of work/usage with them, I first saw this freezing behaviour with my original 276CX that had hardware issues and was returned, the refurbished CX I bought a year or two later also does it, and now the 700...

Another email today:

The engineering team have requested for you to test the Montana in a vehicle that wouldn't vibrate as much. Are you able to test the device in a car if possible?

Please also confirm if you are experiencing the exact same issue with your GPSMAP 276CX & if you are testing it in the same vehicle or not.

My response:

I will try to organise the use of a conventional car to test with, I do not have one myself.

The initial testing was done in a 1995 HZJ75 Toyota Land Cruiser 4WD with a 1HZ Diesel engine.
The Land Cruiser 1HZ Diesel engine runs quite smoothly, it has a very smooth idle, and runs smooth at lower and higher revs.
The last few tests have been done in a 1996 PD Ford Courier Diesel 4WD, while it's engine is not as smooth as a Toyota 1HZ while idling it is still reasonably smooth when driving.

Any vibration shown in the videos might be because the camera is not fixed to anything solid in either vehicle, I attach the camera to a tripod and sit the tripod where I consider it gives the camera it's best view of the GPS/s when testing.
One leg is usually on the driver's door arm rest, the other two usually somewhere on the vehicle's floor.


Yes I can confirm the same freezing issue happens with my 276CX, I will video this next time I have the opportunity to do some testing.
I believe I mentioned in the very first video I sent (700, 276CX and 610 together) that the 276CX had the same issues as the 700.
I noticed that particular day that it did not show this issue, and I thought it was fixed.
That particular day I tested was after a firmware update and I presumed the firmware update had solved the issue but unfortunately it had not, it still freezes and is repeatable using the same methods I have documented while testing the 700.
This is my second 276CX, I no longer have the original and part of the reason I returned the original was it also had this freezing behaviour.

My thoughts on this issue, I don't have any engineering experience and hopefully I can explain my thoughts well enough to be understood.
I'm thinking this issue with the 700 and 276CX is possibly something to do with the magnetic (tilt compensated 3 axis) compass and how the devices behave at lower speeds.
I think it's possibly to do with getting heading/direction information from the magnetic compass while stopped or at very low speeds, and then switching to the GPS data for heading information once a certain speed is reached.

I'm thinking the switch from magnetic compass for heading info to GPS data for heading info is made at around 7 kph on the Montana 700, and at around 5kph on the 276CX.
Those speeds are the speeds I notice they both start working correctly at when they've frozen.
It's almost like the devices don't know to get the information from the GPS at very low speeds when the magnetic compass is disabled, so they just do nothing and the freezing I'm seeing is the result of this.
The freezing is something the Montana 600 series does not suffer from and I first saw it appear with the release of the 276CX, and now with the Montana 700 series.

Thanks

Thank you for keeping us updated on this saga with Garmin!

No probs

Had time for a quick test in a car today as requested by Garmin.
No change, still freezes.
This time I set both the 700 and the 610 to record a track point at 1 second intervals.
Tracks recorded by each are in the .zip attachment.

610 orange track, 700 green track.


Today's email to Garmin:

As requested previously I have tested the Montana 700 in a car.
No change, the 700's map display still freezes.



As before I had my Montana 610 beside it for comparison.
During this test I set both devices to record a track point at one second intervals.
The attached .zip file contains the .gpx file from each device during this test.

As yet I have not had time to video the testing of my 276CX, I will do this at the earliest opportunity.

Thanks

.