GPSrChive Discussion Forum

Dear All,
I would like to ask you about honest opinion about having handheld GPS as an back up. Currently I am using Fenix 7 Saphire Solar + smartphone (Samsung s10). My question is if any of you has both Fenix and GPSMap device and can share his experience regarding pros and cons of such solution. Or share experience what is in his opinion better solution.

Smartphone can work as GPS with offline maps, but then battery consumption is high... and major role of smartphone is to have possibility of calling and maybe use the Internet if needed.

My activities are mainly MTB, hiking, climbing, ice climbing, ski touring, free skiing and occasionally hunting.

Does any of you see purpose to have Watch + handheld GPS and phone together? Obviously I have my observations about it but I would like to ask you also for opinion/ experience.

Kind regards and all the best,
Filip

I use a GPSMAP for hiking and mountaineering. I don't have a smartwatch nor smartphone (only a dumbphone). For me is a button based device important, because it is superior than any touch based device if it is raining or I have gloves on.

The only three reason which I could think for you, why you should have a third device beside your fenix and s10, is that your smartphone has too little battery life time, your fenix is not convenient enough to use for navigation due to the small screen and you have problems with touchscreens during your activities.

If you don't think like that, then I don't see why you should invest for a GPSMAP.

I don't know about the GNSS accuracy of the fenix 7 saphire solar, but I think it won't be way worse as the 67, because 67 is still in refinement (at least what everybody hopes it is).

I have an Epix and a GPSMap 67.
It's not a question of do you need it, rather a question of do you want it.

FBO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:17 pm Does any of you see purpose to have Watch + handheld GPS and phone together? Obviously I have my observations about it but I would like to ask you also for opinion/ experience.

Kind regards and all the best,
Filip

It's good to have support to buy a gadget that we don't really need. Everyone says yes you must have it.
I know a wanderer who has crossed, among others, Greenland, Iceland, Iran with a watch. Another hiker walked all the longest trails in the USA, New Zealand, along Norway using only a phone for navigation. I also know a hiker who walked 1000 km in the mountains in winter, his sponsor equipped him with GPSMAP and a Fenix watch (no?). He currently travels only with a watch, supporting himself only with his phone. For these wanderers, the navigation device is not the most important thing. The most important thing for them is to be able to travel.
You have a really good watch.

Nail wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:35 pm

FBO wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 7:17 pm Does any of you see purpose to have Watch + handheld GPS and phone together? Obviously I have my observations about it but I would like to ask you also for opinion/ experience.

Kind regards and all the best,
Filip

It's good to have support to buy a gadget that we don't really need. Everyone says yes you must have it.
I know a wanderer who has crossed, among others, Greenland, Iceland, Iran with a watch. Another hiker walked all the longest trails in the USA, New Zealand, along Norway using only a phone for navigation. I also know a hiker who walked 1000 km in the mountains in winter, his sponsor equipped him with GPSMAP and a Fenix watch (no?). He currently travels only with a watch, supporting himself only with his phone. For these wanderers, the navigation device is not the most important thing. The most important thing for them is to be able to travel.
You have a really good watch.

Obviously that's true! I know how to use map compass, so only if visibility is low any GPS makes sens

But I did not want to find a ways to excuse myself, obviously it's gadget, but I think all of us here like to have them ( I mean gadgets)

I was rather to find out about your personal opinion about handheld GPS as a backup nowadays, having pretty good phone in your pocket and powerbank in the backpack!

Regards,
Filip

I have GPS since if I remember in 1996 with my first GPS38 which did not work under the trees, wait at least half an hour to have the satellites (12 parallel channels) as soon as the GPSII+ came out I sold the 38, the GPSII+ worked much better.
My goal was to search for old mines for minerals, mines sometimes impossible to find because they were too old but with the GPS I found it more easily, because at home the BRGM (Bureau de Recherche de Géologie Minière) has an atlas of old mines with their coordinates of the time not always precise, but with perseverance I found anomalies of ground and I found the dumps.
And since that time, I became Mr. GPS as my friends tell me. It allowed me to record the traces of a trip to Morocco.

FBO wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:29 pm
I was rather to find out about your personal opinion about handheld GPS as a backup nowadays, having pretty good phone in your pocket and powerbank in the backpack!

Regards,
Filip

You don't mention the watch.
Personally, I used the phone for navigation and it was not a good solution for me. Rain, gloves made navigation difficult. I was thinking about a watch, but I bought Casio Protrek earlier, in addition, I have to use glasses to read, so there was no point in buying another watch and I bought GPSMAP. To travel on designated trails, all you need is a phone call to the track register. I walk in the forests, which often have overgrown paths that have not been visited for a long time and then a GPS is necessary. In my opinion, for such purposes, one GPS and a phone as a backup device are enough. I also had a case where my 66sr with previous firmware got stuck and couldn't locate me, then I used my phone. There is no need to have 3 GPS devices.

The correct number of GPS devices to own is n+1, where n is the number of devices currently owned.
It can get out of hand though...

I think that one device plus a map and compass is enough, and I would even reverse the order.

I've just finished a daily hike testing exactly this question. (23 km, 5 hours moving time, trip time 9 hours).

TL;DR: I've found the GPSMAP is much better in every aspect than a watch.

I've created a gpx file and uploaded to the GPSMAP 67, to Fenix 6X pro and Forerunner 265 to check the usability, gps accuracy and the overall usefulness.

First, the data:
Trip lengths:
265: 24.28 km
Fenix: 29.99 km
GPSMAP: 23.30 km

Battery left:
265: 54% (Always on, checked very often)
Fenix: 19% (probably it is old now)
GPSMAP: 70% (Always on, screen timeout 15 sec, used almost continuously)

GPS accuracy:
conditions: mountain, rare forest, good satellite reception, the GPSMAP reported stable 1.8-2.0 m accuracy, generally no harsh conditions, but there were some tricky conditions (deep valleys) and many turnarounds so the accuracy can be estimated fairly well.

265 (All + Multiband): good, detailed, some wandering here and there, but generally okayish
Fenix (GPS + Galileo): not bad, but not good either, a lot of hiccups, guestimations, meh
GPSMAP (Multi-GNSS, Multi-Band, reporting every 2 secs): almost perfect (to my eye and comparing to the others), it is really not a competition. Turnaround tracks perfectly matches, it worked very well in deep valley as well).

Usability:
265: well, it does not have map. the gesture worked catastrophically (you really need to raise your hand), the always on even worst: it was so dim that it was impossible to see. It is relevant, because the Forerunner 965 does have a map, but this way it could not be too much fun to use.

Fenix: it is bad. You'd need your both hands (obviously), too small map, but the MIP screen is excellent - it is miles better than the amoled. But all in all, the usability is so bad, that I'd use a watch as a navigation tool only when it is really not necessary (in very well known terrain, or when it is rarely needed)

GPSMAP: almost excellent. there are some quirks, but the UX is much better than anyone would think (it looks very outdated). it is built like a tank, it can be used in one hand, large (enough) display and you can have a map and the elevation graph in one screen. the MIP makes it readable without waking up the display, it is perfect.

Bugs:
265: for whatever reason it reported a constant elevation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fenix: it calculates the ETE/ETA times based on the whole trip - and it will be always very wrong if there are differences in pace, so you'd need to calculate these your own (based on you current pace / distance). the GPSMAP calculates based on the current pace - that is actually usable, I can add the stops if needed.

GPSMAP:
1) because of the clunky UX (sometimes it is so wrong), I've stopped the navigation once (not the recording). As a result, the saved activity is a pure garbage. The gpx track is ok, but all the other trip data is nonsensical.
2) when the elevation graph is on the dashboard on the map it does not refresh - at all. you need to go to the elevation page and switch back to refresh it - aarrgh, it makes useless the elevation dashboard
3) elevation is all over the place. after a calibration (to a precise altitude) it wanders by 50-100m (!) in the next ten minutes, so there were always a high jump in the middle of the elevation graph. I've tried all options (auto calibration), but it is all the same (maybe I don't understand how it works)
===

In a summary: until this lost data situation has been fixed, a watch is a must have as a backup device to save the activity data. Also, it calculates exercise load that could be also useful.

Otherwise the GPSMAP is very-very useful and I'd prefer it (it is so much better than a watch), especially when the terrain is new to me.

That being said, a watch alone is perfectly manageable (except the ETA issue), it is just not that fun / comfortable to use. But honestly, I'd rather use a printed map and a compass, instead of a watch.