Alternative Model Suggestions

[dont_panic]

I opened a thread with my review of the H1 and asked for suggestions for an alternative. I thought it would make sense to open a dedicated thread just to ask for suggestions - especially as that thread is now locked, it turns out.

@JungleJim: Thanks for your PM on this topic. I can't reply because I'm too new to the forum, but your PM was very useful - thank you.

The Edge Explore 2 was suggested. For me, its positives are:

• Custom OSM Map support
• Direct access to the device storage to add GPX tracks and routes
• Still receiving official updates
• Large screen
• No Wi-Fi (the fewer wireless connections to secure the better)
• Acceptable battery life
• On-device route creation and re-calculation
• Reasonable built-in storage capacity

The negatives are:

• No audio navigation, just beeps/tones - unless paired with Connect on a smartphone

Some of the unknowns are:

• If I copy a custom OSM map to the device, will it display/allow searching for POI?
• How do I manually back up important info created on the device?
• Accuracy?

Please feel free to respond regarding the unknowns, or to correct me if I've misattributed a positive. I'm going to keep researching the device because at the moment it sounds like a good stop-gap.

Please reply if you think you can suggest a more suitable handheld GPS device. In addition to full speech audio navigation, I'm looking to strike a good balance between a smartphone-like experience and a high-end GPS handheld experience, and to be able to manage the device day-to-day without syncing to the cloud.

Thanks.

[kwieto]

You may search for TwoNav devices, I know bike users who are happy with them

[JungleJim]

You’re welcome!

Not sure about the POI search, I think (but am not 100% sure) that data is not coming from the map itself but from a different database. Address search works with custom maps if those maps include address data (not all do).

In my experience with the Edge cycling computers (see signature) I’ve never felt the need to use custom maps. The cycling maps (now integrated in Garmin’s TopoActive maps) worked fine for me.

Backup is easy, just copy the relevant files (locations.fit, activity fit files, course fit files, etc) from the device to your computer. To restore, copy them to the Garmin\NewFiles folder. See this Garmin support article for more info.

Note that the Edge Explore 2 uses MTP to communicate via USB, not all devices support connecting to an MTP client. On macOS you need a 3rd party utility like OpenMTP to access the files.

From what I read on different forums, accuracy is fine but the Explore 2 does not have multi-band. It does have multi-GNSS, with GPS, Galileo and GLONASS.

One other thing of note though is that the Explore 2 doesn’t allow creating custom activity profiles. It comes with three profiles (road, off-road and indoor) that you can customize, but you cannot create new ones.

I’d suggest checking some YouTube videos, there are plenty available. For example DC Rainmaker (aka Garmin fanboy ), gpsradler, DesFit, and many more.

And finally, the Edge Explore 2 was released in 2022 so it’s quite old now by Garmin standards. Garmin seems to refresh the Explore line every 4 years and around July/August (based on releases so far). So it seems the device is due for an update this year. My guess on updates (speculation of course): based on Edge x50 hardware and software, which means brighter screen, faster processing power, but less battery life.

PS I think this thread can better be moved to the Other Garmin Models, as it’s not about the H1 anymore but about the Edge Explore 2. Maybe an admin can do that?

PPS I honestly think your limiting your options by not wanting to use cloud. For me it works so much easier being able to create a route in Komoot and wirelessly sync it to my H1 or other devices. Also all recorded activities are directly available in the platforms I use without the hassle of connecting to a computer, copying files and manually uploading. But that’s my personal opinion.

[dont_panic]

You may search for TwoNav devices, I know bike users who are happy with them

Thanks for the suggestion. I had a look at them once before but as far as I can see TwoNav's ecosystem is almost entirely cloud-based, which doesn't work for me. Also, the desktop application, Land, requires an online account and is apparently very limited in features unless you subscribe.

Perhaps you could post back letting me know what aspects of the TwoNav devices the bike users you know liked?

Not sure about the POI search, I think (but am not 100% sure) that data is not coming from the map itself but from a different database. Address search works with custom maps if those maps include address data (not all do).

I can get in touch with Garmin directly and ask about this. I find their support team very helpful, which is one reason I'm still looking at their products.

In my experience with the Edge cycling computers (see signature) I’ve never felt the need to use custom maps. The cycling maps (now integrated in Garmin’s TopoActive maps) worked fine for me.

I like keeping my options open. I don't want to pay for a device where the maps for my region fall short of my needs and I can't do anything to improve them except wait for Garmin to update them. My reading suggests Garmin can take quite some time to provide updates to things like this, if ever.

Backup is easy, just copy the relevant files (locations.fit, activity fit files, course fit files, etc) from the device to your computer. To restore, copy them to the Garmin\NewFiles folder. See this Garmin support article for more info.

That's good news. I can work with that. I'm guessing I can probably import them directly into BaseCamp afterwards.

Note that the Edge Explore 2 uses MTP to communicate via USB, not all devices support connecting to an MTP client. On macOS you need a 3rd party utility like OpenMTP to access the files.

Yeah, that's a pain. I actually tried OpenMTP as an alternative to Android Transfer Agent and it crashed on launch with an error message every time. I've just downloaded an older version, hopefully it'll work.

Just to give something back: there's a fork that fixes some issues available here. It's ARM only so newer Macs only.

From what I read on different forums, accuracy is fine but the Explore 2 does not have multi-band. It does have multi-GNSS, with GPS, Galileo and GLONASS.

So long as it's more accurate than a smartphone and has a faster first fix time, it'll do for the moment.

One other thing of note though is that the Explore 2 doesn’t allow creating custom activity profiles. It comes with three profiles (road, off-road and indoor) that you can customize, but you cannot create new ones.

I'm not actually sure what this means. I'll download the user guide and see if this is going to be an issue.

I’d suggest checking some YouTube videos, there are plenty available. For example DC Rainmaker (aka Garmin fanboy :P), gpsradler, DesFit, and many more.

Thanks, seeing the device in action would be useful.

And finally, the Edge Explore 2 was released in 2022 so it’s quite old now by Garmin standards.
[...]

That's actually a positive in my book. It means I can expect the device to be more likely to be available second-hand and it'll be more stable.

PPS I honestly think your limiting your options by not wanting to use cloud.
...
But that’s my personal opinion.

I hear you. It's a preference of mine. Once you've had your information stolen online and lost access to accounts holding personal info, I think it's natural to try to limit exposure in the future. It's just a shame that device manufacturers push people to cloud-based devices - even when it's largely unnecessary. I think it speaks more to a desire to have access to a pool of user data to work with, for whatever reason. But, that's only my personal opinion ;) .

[Marko]

You may search for TwoNav devices, I know bike users who are happy with them

Yes, I am!
Just bear in mind that only a few models have an audio prompts. In addition, use of OSM maps is limited in TwoNav and impossible in Wahoo.
From the cyclist point of view, I admire Wahoo models right now - the easiest to operate on bike; the Wahoo Bolt is also very small - pocket size bicycle GPS.
Note that I use both units just for a few hours long trips, neither for expeditions.

[Wojtas81]

Cycling devices are very different from hiking devices. Hiking devices are poorly designed for cycling and vice versa.

1. Cycling devices support turn-by-turn navigation form uploaded tracks (ie. from other apps like Komoot, Locus or OsmAnd).

In most hiking devices you must firstly convert track to route to have navigation prompts.
Some devices support in-device conversion but it takes time.
Also such converted route is not 1 to 1 equivalent to uploaded track.

2. Cycling devices are lighter, have better form factor and have more available handlebar mounts (eg. Framesandgear, KOM Cycling, etc).

3. Cycling devices support more bike specific sensors and devices (eg. radar, shifter).

4. Cycling devices support more bike specific data and statistics (eg. health specific, calories).

I suggest you give a try to iGPSPORT BiNavi.
Recently bought one and I am satisfied. It is simple, cheap (frequent promotions and discounts) and it do its job on bike.

In addition, use of OSM maps is limited in TwoNav and impossible in Wahoo.

Almost all maps currently are based on OSM (including those original ones in Garmin, Wahoo or TwoNav).
And yes, it is possible two update Wahoo maps using unofficial tools (eg. wahooMapsCreator).

[*]Still receiving official updates

Those updates are nothing more than dead wheel.

1. Fixing bugs.
2. Changing features and introducing new bugs.
3. Starting again from point 1.

In effect devices like Garmin Edge 1040, 4 years after theirs release, are still not considered as mature. Look at Garmin Forums, you will see.

The situation is worse than in many discontinued navigation devices which are stable at last.

[Marko]

I can see TwoNav's ecosystem is almost entirely cloud-based, which doesn't work for me. Also, the desktop application, Land, requires an online account and is apparently very limited in features unless you subscribe.

That's true!

Perhaps you could post back letting me know what aspects of the TwoNav devices the bike users you know liked?

1. It offers RASTER mapping (RMAP) capabilities that Garmin (KMZ, Birdseye) doesn't. In particular, turning on only thouse RASTER tiles which are available under the actual location or in the cursor area.
2. In contrary to Garmin, the TwoNav mobile app equal to the unit system is available (for free). Everyone and in any time, can check if TwoNav is for him/her.

Almost all maps currently are based on OSM (including those original ones in Garmin, Wahoo or TwoNav).

The only official, and fully functional TwoNav vectorial map (VMAP, 23Q1) is based on the TomTom maps.
The user mapping format exists (it is called MVP), but the vectorisation needs some skill, premium subscription of the Land programme, and it is not fully functional yet (e.g. some problems with routing).
The TwoNav OSM official maps are outdated, e.g. 15Q2 for Poland.
Last but not least, in contrary to Garmin and Wahoo, the TwoNav is a raster-orientated system.

[dont_panic]

Thanks to everyone who's responded so far.

Your opinions are useful and have helped crystallise my wish list a little. I've decided the following:

• It must support full offline management - for that reason, I won't be buying a TwoNav, because Marko has confirmed that it's almost completely cloud-centric.
• Any device I buy must support sideloading custom OSM maps (as Marko said:

  The TwoNav OSM official maps are outdated, e.g. 15Q2 for Poland.

  That's shocking! That means I won't be buying a Wahoo.)
• The device must support full vocal audio navigation prompts, instead of beeps and tones.
• USB file transfer

I've decided to turn my hunt on its head and instead of focussing on a dedicated cycle GPS, see if there's a device out there that's basically the GPSMAP H1 but with:

• Truly audible vocalised audio navigation
• Proper reliable offline management

I didn't hate the H1, but its flaws were more than I could live with.

Is there something out there that's like the H1 without the flaws and with the features I've just listed?

[Wojtas81]

The only official, and fully functional TwoNav vectorial map (VMAP, 23Q1) is based on the TomTom maps.

TomTom maps for tourism ? No, thanks.
TomTom has no experience in this area. They are focused on car navigation.

[*]Truly audible vocalised audio navigation

iGPSPORT BSC500 supports voice navigation. And you can buy it for pennies using promo codes.
But these cycling devices are poor for hiking. They are mainly designed for cycling with uploaded tracks, with some basic re-routing capabilities.
Ie. its own routing capabilities are nowhere near to those of Garmins.

But again, in my opinion single device for hiking and cycling is generally bad idea. Buy two devices, each designed for its specific activity.

[Marko]

[*]It must support full offline management - for that reason, I won't be buying a TwoNav, because Marko has confirmed that it's almost completely cloud-centric.

Beg your pardon, but it is not true. You can manage it offline easily

Is there something out there that's like the H1 without the flaws and with the features I've just listed?

My answer is 'No', it does not exist alternative to GPSMap H1 hiking&cycling GPS unit with the voice prompts and the OSM support. I am afraid that just the smartphone apps can manage your needs.

TomTom maps for tourism ? No, thanks.
TomTom has no experience in this area. They are focused on car navigation.

That's right! I am with the TwoNav more than 15 years (since 2011), and previous software was focused on both: car&tourism navigation (that's why 'Two Nav'). Therefore, the TomTom is a bad relict from that past.
The point is, and I mention it frequently, the TwoNav is for raster maps. But truthfully saying, the electronic copies of paper maps many times appear more useful than vector or the OSM (e.g. please look at the Ordnance Survey, Kompass Wanderkarten, Compass or ShoCART maps).